Spiritual Insights for Leaders, Tiffany Chan
This podcast episode explores how spirituality can be a guiding force for leaders in navigating the complexities of modern business leadership. Belinda Ephraim, host of NextGen Industrialists, speaks with guest Tiffany Chan, who has worked globally with visionary leaders to integrate faith, values, and purpose into their leadership styles.
Key Discussion Points
Spiritual Leadership: The integration of spirituality into leadership, helping guide leaders through ethical dilemmas and life transitions with grace.
Faith and Values in Business: How leaders can align their personal faith and professional responsibilities without alienating others.
Ethical Decision-Making: The role spirituality plays in making thoughtful, values-driven decisions in business.
Diversity in Spirituality: Respecting and acknowledging diverse spiritual traditions within globalized businesses.
Maxims
"I have a lot of faith and trust in the younger generations. I think that they come in with new systems, almost like a fresh mainframe that they're bringing to the world. And I do believe that they're able to connect to frequencies in a much different and more refined way. So, the future of leadership is bright, and I'm very excited for that."
"I believe in trust and the power of love. I think in many ways, we've almost downplayed love or put it in a small chocolate box, kind of cheapened it, which makes us think that love is a frivolous thing. But love is a powerful force, and I believe in it."
"And so my dream, my want, and also my definition for a next-gen industrialist is someone who creates at the source, creating with love, co-creating their world through that love, being able to exercise their agency, but then also working in cooperation with the greater power that is."
Work with Tiffany
+ Website
Resources Mentioned
Book, Code of The Extraordinary Mind
Book, Man’s Search for Meaning
Why You Should Listen
This episode offers practical insights for leaders looking to integrate their personal spiritual practices into professional environments, showcasing how doing so can positively impact both their leadership style and organizational culture. Whether you're spiritual, religious, or just curious, the discussion opens up thought-provoking ideas on balancing personal beliefs with the demands of leadership.
Listen in to understand how embracing spirituality in leadership doesn't just influence personal growth, but also enhances resilience, decision-making, and ethical grounding in business contexts.
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Introduction to NextGen Industrialists
Hello. Hello. Hello. And welcome to another episode of NextGen Industrialists.
I am your host, Belinda Ephraim, founder and CEO of Katalyst Point, a boutique advisory firm that represents founder led industry 4.0 businesses that drive advancements in manufacturing, supply chain, and industrial automation, providing M&A advice on scaling to eight- and nine-figure exits.
Today, we're diving into a topic that's often overlooked in the business world, yet it is incredibly fascinating, inspiring, challenging, and quite impactful.
That topic is spiritual leadership.
Our guest, Tiffany Chan, has worked with visionary leaders globally to help them integrate their faith, values, and purpose into their leadership styles.
In this episode, we'll explore how spirituality can guide us through the complexities of modern leadership, from facing difficult and ethical decisions to managing life's transitions with grace.
We invite everyone to listen in and participate equally in this conversation.
Whether you describe yourself as interested and curious, spiritual but not religious, an atheist or agnostic, a charismatic believer, or a last, fill in the blank, I hope you'll find this conversation of value.
And so before we begin, Tiffany, I want to thank you so much for spending time with me.
This is a real privilege for me to actually invite people into conversation.
How are you doing today?
I'm really well. I'm excited about the conversation, and, I'm looking forward to seeing where this goes.
Yeah. Yeah. Me too.
So when I do these things, I always like in my interviews to the indigenous oral traditions of telling stories in communal experience. I'm going to start. But before I do, I want you to know that you are in absolute control. You can choose to not answer the question or answer the question any way that you want to.
Tiffany Chan's Personal Journey
So, Tiffany, what is your story?
I really appreciate that, Belinda.
And thank you. Thank you to your audience, and thank you for the invitation to be here with you today.
Absolutely thrilled.
I think my journey started like many people who are on listening to this podcast.
Grew up in pretty stable family, had a conventional upbringing in North America with the immigrant parents, and then, you know, recognized that there was some dimensionality to what there was in terms of, other things. You know, I knew that there was a grand sort of, like, tapestry that was weaving us together. I had grown up were Roman Catholic. I had gone to Catholic school.
But also I knew that there was something more, something that I couldn't quite articulate but couldn't give voice to or couldn't kind of, like, have some tangibility around it. And because we didn't really discuss those particular things within my household or within a larger society, I kinda just thought that it was, like, second tier. I thought that the things that were celebrated, education, making money, advancing forward were the things that were going to be celebrated. And so therefore, I placed my priorities on that stuff, because it was recognized.
And I just put my spirituality on the back burner. And what had happened was that I got my MBA at Babson College just like you, and then went on to go and serve at the World Economic Forum. As some may know, this is a international organization, that's largely known for its annual gathering at Davos.
And so it's the world high level leaders, presidents, CEOs, heads up organizations, all descending upon a small Swiss town and really making, some critical decisions and having conversation about the state of the world and where we want to go. And it was really interesting because it was a beautiful window into high level leadership, but it was also, you got to see people because it was quite a intimate gathering. You know?
They do have folks who are at this high level, but because it's a small Swiss town, they can't invite everyone. So it's actually quite intimate. And so you're getting to know people at a more human level. And because of that, I was privy to some conversations that they normally wouldn't have in public. You know, it's really interesting because I saw some more dimensionality to the human, more characteristics of what it means to be a leader, and also recognized that folks were both yearning for and not necessarily speaking publicly about their more private spiritual lives. And it was very interesting because as someone who wanted to model my life after these people who are celebrated within society, I found a dichotomy, right, of folks who were smart, who were making waves in the world, but at the same time, really yearning for that more heart centered connection, that more humanness in a public realm.
And what I found is it's not necessarily that spirituality doesn't exist in leadership. It's that we don't necessarily talk about these things in public because we don't necessarily feel like it's socially acceptable. But we'll we'll discuss more of that later. But circling back, it was very interesting because, I had a fellowship that came to an end at the forum, and then I went to go and work and live abroad in Johannesburg.
A Call to Spiritual Community
And it was during that time, my mom gave me a call up on on the phone and she said, hey. You know, you've landed in South Africa for a while now. Have you have you found a home? Have you found a church? Have you found a community? A place that you can grow spiritually?
And, you know, honestly, my first reaction is that I just rolled my eyes, you know? Even though I knew it was important, again, I thought it was, like, second level, not necessarily top tier in terms of my priorities. And I was thinking to my myself, I was like, ma, you know, don't you know what I'm doing? You know? Like, I I'm making waves in the world. I'm doing things for, like, social good.
But it kept sticking with me, this idea of this desire to nourish that part of me that was, you know, like, my soul. Right?
And what had happened was that I was on my way to the US embassy to go do some business related to, my passport.
And as I was finishing up my business, I was crossing a major intersection in downtown Joburg, and, a car came rotating through the air coming towards me, and I was a pedestrian at that time. And it was just one of those sort of, like, wake up moments. Thankfully, I wasn't hurt, but it was one of these things that it was sort of like a sliding door moment where my life could have instantly changed and I just sort of like woke up to, those larger questions. Right?
I think that everyone to some degree has those shocks of initiation, whether it be a divorce or losing their job or filing for bankruptcy or having a car coming through the air or major health scare. I think these moments of, shock are sort of like sort of like the wake up moments to be like, hey, you know, there's something more. We're we're asking for your attention. In fact, we're begging you for your attention.
And so that was the catalyst that sort of like helped me sort of like begin to have the courage to explore these deeper questions of, do I believe in a God? What is there in the universe? What am I really here for? Like what is the deeper purpose that I'm here to do?
And it was through that exploration that I started going into contemplative practices, started exploring energy work, started, like, moving into the Akashic records, which I can speak more about later. But it was like this deeper understanding of that there is something more and it's ready and wanting to be in relationship and to communicate with us. And really, it's in here an evolution, not only for our own personal consciousness, but in service towards greater transformation in the world. And so just bridging two and two together, you know, I've been through this journey for the last ten years, and it's been quite a ride.
Sharing Spiritual Journeys
And I, like many people, have kept this, you know, hidden away. But for the past couple of years, I've just been a little bit more outspoken in both sharing my story because I recognize that a lot of people are coming into this greater awareness, this expansion of consciousness, and they're looking for integration and the embodiment of people who are both, like, business savvy as well as nurturing their spiritual selves and bringing this full wholeness into this reality and, like, sharing this more broadly with the world.
Yeah. Thank you for sharing your story.
I think it's really important to have this conversation, just because, like you just mentioned, you know, being able to come out it's almost like a coming out moment. Right? Yeah. We have these conversations in intimate, situations, environments, but we really never come out and say, okay.
What really How does spirituality impact leadership and profits? And so it's very interesting. We have very similar backgrounds. I didn't realize that you were also a Roman Catholic growing up as well as well as I.
And, so it's interesting how the focus on education, which obviously has its merits, education, you know, success, climbing that ladder, to all of a sudden having this moment in time where there was sort of a shift in awareness and consciousness, and then you're doing the work, to get there. So I think to frame the context around our conversation, I'm going to throw a few terms at you Sure. That I'd like you to define. So then that way, as we continue the conversation, we can have a little bit of context that people can understand what we really mean when we say things like, for example, let's talk about values.
Being Aligned with Our Values
How do you define values?
These are, for me, the core principles that you are prioritizing in your life.
These are the things that if you make a decision based upon those core values, it may be difficult, but you feel an integrity with who you are. There's an openness that occurs within your heart and you feel like you're stepping into a broader sense of, wholeness.
For me, I wanna both give a definition, but then also an embodied sense of what it feels like. Because I think that people understand it at a cerebral level. But if I can describe it on a feeling level, people will also resonate a little bit more deeper.
In my experience, when you're aligning with your values, when you're stepping into something like, I value personally like freedom, for example. When I'm making a choice based upon freedom, I can feel myself expand. I can feel, my heart rate sort of, like, relax, and I know that I'm acting in integrity with the truth of who I am.
I really like that, that definition because I think the values really is the root of the integrity, in order for the other things to to align. So let's talk about the meaning of faith. How do you define faith?
Understanding Faith and Trust
I actually think of faith in terms of trust.
It's a trust that everything is working in our favor.
Regardless of what the circumstance is, it is in service of our transformation, of our evolution, and knowing that we step into the unknown, allowing ourselves to be almost like risen higher as a result of that.
I really struggled with faith for a long time because quite frankly, I operated on a quid pro quo kind of basis with that of a higher power, a higher source. And I thought that if I had made these particular decisions in my life, meaning pivoting from my business career, ending certain relationships, that I would be, quote, unquote, rewarded.
But in my experience, that is not necessarily the case in the ways that we traditionally sort of expect it. Right? It's trusting that the release of these relationships or the stepping into one's truer identity is in service of, greater expansion awareness. It is what is helping me evolve as a soul. And sometimes, you know, continually today, if I'm really honest, but especially earlier in my journey, I really needed to rely on the faith of other people. I really needed to be able to hear the stories of other people that have been on their paths. And what I would say is, trust, faith, whatever you call it, is a function of relationship.
And so if you don't know what you're interacting with, it's really hard to be able to put your faith and trust in that thing.
Okay?
So take small experiments. Try something new. It doesn't need to be leaving your career tomorrow.
But if you start opening up that channel of communication, you start to be in a relationship with the universe, then that relationship, that faith, that trust, that knowing deepens and grows. And if you don't have that within yourself, you can listen to stories from myself or from other people to be able to almost, like, borrow faith to help you make that first step.
I like that concept of borrowing faith. We're gonna come back to that. How do you define belief?
The Nature of Belief
Deep seated conviction.
Yeah. Deep seated conviction. Yeah.
I would also say, it's really healthy to be able to question your beliefs and to be able to start parsing out what are inherited beliefs, what are societal beliefs, and what are the things that you believe to be true. And I think that a lot of people, when they're moving through this journey of consciousness, when they're moving through this spirituality journey, it's really parsing out what is that of my ego. Right? What are the belief systems that I have, that have been imparted on me or that have been passed down on me through, familial patterns, through, different things that I've inherited through, I don't know, the community that I grew up in.
What are the things that, you know, I've sort of, like, allowed within my system? And then also making choice. This is where free will comes in. Exercising your agency, your choice, and making a decision on what beliefs do you want to take and what beliefs do you want to move forward with and really developing your own ethos.
Because I do believe that, the journey of transformation is allowing yourself to move from the cycle of, what are the boxes that I had to, like, be in to help, like, allow myself to be constructed in, and what are the things that I wanna build in the future. And I think that being a creator in this world is not necessarily thinking what are the things that I wanna build, but what are the systems of belief that I wanna perpetuate into the world?
A good book that actually really helped me with this, when I started on my journey is a book by Vishen Lakhiani called Code of the Extraordinary Mind.
Mhmm.
He does a fantastic job.
There's certain chapters in the book that he does a fantastic job of actually walking you through how to take the beliefs that have been programmed into you based on your environment and how you can shift those beliefs and create new beliefs that actually align better with your values, the values that we mentioned before.
And and he's also very a business person. He worked in Silicon Valley, and he brought that up. So it kind of resonates, especially with people who are trying to understand the differences between values and beliefs and faith.
Religion vs. Spirituality
That will be a good book in addition to, obviously, you know, have hiring you as a spiritual adviser, if they just kinda wanna wrap their heads around that. Can we talk about religion and spirituality? What is the difference between religion and spirituality? How do you view that?
Yeah.
It's a it's a big question, so I'm just gonna put that out there.
The way that I experience it and I think that religion actually, serves a really important purpose. It provides structure, rituals, in terms of, like, institutions and doctrines that allow people to grow, right, within, a certain framework, and I think it's really important.
But I also believe and from my experience deeply know that it's important also to be able to orient towards, a larger consciousness, to be able to say, okay.
These are the belief systems, doctrines that have been imposed on me.
In what ways can I be able to develop a direct experiential knowing between me and divine?
And whatever word you use to be able to describe God, whether it be God, spirit, source, the universe, divine, the big spaghetti bowl, you know, out there.
I I don't really think that it cares.
But developing a direct knowing within yourself that is not reliant on other people or other things telling you what to do.
I also believe that spirituality, is an evolution of consciousness.
It's really being able to, it really comes down to identity. So not only recognizing myself as love, recognizing myself as a vehicle of love, recognizing myself within a greater universe of love, but also recognizing that that love emanates through my very presence.
And knowing that as I show up every single day and am in service, I am the embodiment of that greater love.
And I think it is that identity that is the fundamental truth that for me is the main distinction between spirituality and religion.
Respecting Diverse Beliefs
You talk about identity.
How does that relay into those who don't even believe, whatever they might decide to call it, you know, that they just don't believe that there's anything out there?
What would you suggest to someone, like, in that space?
I have a lot of compassion and a lot of, honestly, respect as well, because I was one of those people.
I'm really not here to prove anything to anyone. I just know from not only my personal experience, but from the thousands that I've taught over the course of the past couple of years that this thing, whatever it is, is true. I also recognize that some people are on a particular soul journey where, they are that is designed in terms of their particular, pathway.
Right? That is something that they've come to experience to not have that be a part of their lives. And so I respect and I honor that.
I also know that there is a part of them, perhaps unconscious, that deeply resonates and knows from the deepest part of who they are that what I am speaking and what I am sharing is true. So I don't necessarily try to do anything.
I most definitely don't appeal to someone's mind. But if I am speaking to someone, I'm actually speaking directly to their soul. And I trust and I also know that their soul recognizes that part of of themselves.
And I honor who they are and who they are in their journey.
Thank you for, thank you for sharing that because, you know, I feel like and we'll go into this in terms of diversity in cultural traditions, spiritual traditions, religions, and how leaders, you know, work around all of these different aspects, but I I don't wanna jump too far ahead. Can you talk to me about the let's let's focus now on the inner journey because I feel a lot of times when people connect with God, source, it's they have this sort of concept that it's very much outer.
Yeah.
Can we can we talk about the inner first, and and how that ties into dharma and what dharma is?
Well, I I'd be curious to hear what your definition of dharma is because I, I use I actually use different words, but, we can talk upon that later. So so your question is more about, how one experiences their identity, how one experiences source?
Yeah. Just you know, when when we talk about that from I think a lot of our audience, you know, is very cerebral. Right? It's Yeah. This concept. So when they choose to identify with with source or god or something other than themselves, how can that then turn into purpose into their purpose by identifying with source and then turning that connection into purpose?
Experiencing Dharma
I don't know if I'm gonna answer you directly, but I'll share an experience that I have actually never spoken about before publicly.
So I I've trained, for several years with Christian mystical tradition.
So the part that is, understanding and also celebrates that we are the embodiment of the greater consciousness that surrounds us.
And one of the core practices that they teach us is actually a line from the bible, and the prayer is a lead into a certain amount of meditation.
And so the prayer is, be still and know that I am God.
Be still and know.
Be still.
Be.
And for several years, when I first experienced this line from the bible and this prayer, I was kind of experienced it from, like, God reassuring me of, like, yo, things are gonna be okay.
Be still in no because, like, I got this under control. Right? And it was kinda reassuring and it was nice and it was, you know, this sort of, like, pat on the back.
But one day, I was sort of, like, doing the prayer and reciting it to myself, And I actually experienced the prayer from the inside outwards.
Okay? It was like, be still and know that I am God, that Tiffany Chan, and everyone else, by the way, is the embodiment of that universal source.
Be still and know. From the deepest part of my being, knowing that I hold that infinite love, that, courageousness, that expansiveness within the very seed of my being, be still with every single, fiber of my knowing and then just be.
The Turning Point of Understanding
Right?
I don't know if that answers you directly, but I think it's important to share these sort of experiences because for me, that was the turning point of me knowing that it wasn't some sort of, like, grandfatherly person with a white beard patting me on the back, but I was that embodiment of that consciousness here in the world.
Yeah. It's funny that you actually bring up that line in the bible because that's something that actually is very grounding for me, especially when I have to make decisions.
It's one of those that I sort of rely on just to just to fall back into myself and just feel my connection to God, to source, and the universe, and to everyone.
And then it allows me to make decisions that are actually in line with my values, my faith, my updated belief systems, and also just how I show up as a leader in in the spaces that I that I am in. Right.
So it's interesting that you you bring that up.
And it's good to know that that's also something that you actually rely on as well.
Yeah. Yeah. Because it it brings you into pure presence.
Yes.
Right? Yes. And I and I think a lot of what we as humans do is we either, like, jump forward because we're trying to, like, be protect ourselves and kind of anticipate what's going on or we'll ruminate on the past of mistakes that we've made or stupid things that we've said.
Mhmm.
But really the only pure moment is now. And a lot of the, meditators out there will attest that there is sort of like that still point. When you get there, it's almost as if you are both nothing and everything at all.
Yeah. You're not the body. You're not the mind.
Right. Right. And it's it's interesting because when we move from that place of pure presence, it's not that fear doesn't exist. So, like, we acknowledge the fullness of what those emotions are, but we move forward with trusting that regardless of what happens, it's going to be okay.
Leadership and Character Development
Yeah. Right. And I think that's where that faith comes in. So so how does that all sort of tie into how leaders can develop character and leadership?
It's a it's a it's a huge question. It's a really important question.
In my experience, everyone, but particularly leaders, no. They know when a particular decision is in alignment with not only their values, but in the highest good for all. And they know when they're out of line.
They know when they've compromised themselves because they feel like they've not only abandoned themselves, but they feel as if, there's like an sort of like a ickiness. Right? And then there's a sort of, way that we justify these things within ourselves.
I I believe that certain exercises like meditation, like, you know, reminding ourselves that we are the embodiment of that greater consciousness gives us a faith and trust to be able to act in alignment with those harder decisions.
It's not that these decisions are impossible, it's that we believe that they're impossible.
It's that we believe that we need to make certain compromises. It's that believe that we won't belong or we'll lose our job or we'll get kicked out, because we make certain choices.
I do believe that, not only the future of leadership, but then also what is so badly needed right now is for folks to be able to quiet themselves so that they can be able to attune to that in, you know, a Christian term would be that still small voice.
Right? That inner knowing.
Whether it be, you know, that inner compass or your heart or what I refer to as your higher self, that part of you that is connected in the embodiment of God that is guiding you towards the next right step. And that next right step may be unpopular, but there is a certain freedom and integrity that you feel because you know that you're in alignment with who you are. And it is it is necessarily in service of not only your personal growth, but also for the expansion of the collective.
Alignment of Mind, Body, Heart, and Spirit
So talking about the collective and how when one is in alignment, and I call it the alignment of mind, body, heart, and spirit.
Yeah.
So if if one of those four things is out of alignment with who you are, because you're basing your decision not on the integrity of your character, but because and I find this a lot in publicly traded companies where CEOs, not all, some, make really bad decisions. And I always say, just just because you can does not mean you should.
Sure.
Right?
For example, I just had a conversation with Peter Goodman who wrote the book Inside the Global Supply Chain, How the World Ran Out of Everything.
And in there and on the podcast, he actually talks about Norfolk Southern, which is a real world company. And because of deregulation, around maintenance and some of the things that they were supposed to do in order to ensure that trains run well.
Because of deregulation, they chose or maybe for whatever reason, decided not to upkeep their fleet. And in the end, what happened in Palestine, with the trains overturning and a lot of chemicals spillage, and it it just really affected everybody in the community.
So when I when I think about that, I just feel like, you know, at what point can leaders be careful about leading into the fear when it comes to making this larger than life decisions that can actually impact not just the business, but also the communities, the customers that they serve? How can they create more meaning in in their purpose, in their dharma?
Integrating Multitudes Within
You know, you talk a lot about, the mind, body, spirit, soul. And I just wanted to touch upon that quickly because I think it's really important.
The fact that we contain multitudes.
You know, we show up as a as a human body, but we are multiple things at the same time. We are past, present, future. We are mind, body, soul. We are divine feminine, divine masculine.
And it's just about being able to acknowledge all the parts of who we are, to be able to integrate this that we come into what I like to call wholeness. Right? And so when we're acknowledging that we're not compromising, we're not suppressing these parts of us, we're using that to inform what is the next right step. And I think that many of us, particularly who have been rewarded as well as trained in the business community, have been rewarded for, you know, overreliance on the mind and necessarily a negation of the heart.
But the thing is is that the heart is the most powerful, piece of wisdom that has the most intelligence that we have to offer. Right? It's just that this has been celebrated, whereas the heart has been downgraded.
And I'm not saying to, downplay the intelligence, the mental intelligence. I'm just saying that just like you're overworking at the gym, you wouldn't just lift weights with your right hand. You would actually do your left.
Right? And in doing so, you have a stronger body. Okay? So I just wanted to lay that out because it's just really important.
Okay? So for that sort of context, I think what's really important is being able to have greater awareness of our emotional selves. Right? The part of us that is fearful.
Because all of these decisions are really based on personal security.
Mhmm. The fact that we're worried about what other people are gonna be thinking of us, that's a belonging thing, and also, like, our financial well-being.
And I think a lot of these reactions, I don't necessarily think that their responses, I think their reactions to fear is because leaders don't necessarily know, a, how to recognize the fear within their own body, b, to be able to be with it for an extended amount of time, understanding what is the wisdom from the fear and then making a decision based upon that.
You're probably aware of Viktor Frankl, who had been part of, the tragedies with the Holocaust. And he said that, you know, it's really being able to, make a conscious choice between the stimulus and then the response. And I think that a lot of what we're seeing, particularly in leadership, and that was that has gone viral within, the political environment is also, you know, these knee jerk reactions to fear.
And I'm just saying, and what I believe that you're also standing for is taking a moment to just allow those emotions to rise up, to be able to see them for the fullness of what they are, and then create a response that is both in alignment with one's personal integrity, but then also the greater good. And I think that the more that we are able to recognize fear and to be able to see it, to be with it, and use the wisdom that is being that is seeking our attention, the more that we're being able to make conscious decisions that are in alignment with, where spirit is guiding us.
Response vs. Reaction
So I have two follow on questions.
Sure.
What is the difference between reaction versus response?
And the second question is, how do we how do we stare fear in the face?
Like, maybe some tactical things that you found work for people.
Right. So we began this conversation talking about values, talking about, your identification.
And so a lot of us have grown up, thinking that our identity, our personality is actually our ego, meaning the inherited beliefs, the inherited traits that we've been told that are socially acceptable. Right? And so the more that we identify with that ego, the more that we're worried about what other people are gonna think, the more that we're worried about rejection, the more that we are based upon we base our decisions based upon those those fears.
And so when I'm talking about moving from reaction, I'm saying recognizing that those initial knee jerk or, like, flare ups that you feel are actually your ego reacting to that stimulus.
And so, inviting people to almost, like, take a breath to be able to recognize that and then be able to almost, like, act from, not from ego, but from their higher selves, from a higher place of consciousness, from a prior place of awareness, from the part of themselves that actually is, that has been assembled on their values, if they can respond from that place, that's the difference between reaction versus response.
Okay? And sorry. Go ahead.
Now in terms of, like, practically what happens, because these things can happen in a flash of the moment.
Frankly, it takes practice. So I'm not gonna say that it's easy. Okay? But I also will say that we are, we have free will and we have a lot more, agency than we're giving ourselves credit for.
And so if you are having someone that is knocking on your door and demanding, a particular, action on a decision, you can tell people to go away just for, like, a minute.
And I find a very practical thing is just to bring two feet to the ground. The head of Microsoft does this the first ninety seconds that he wakes up, by the way. He brings two feet to the ground, and he just allows himself to, like, feel present.
And it can be as simple as feeling the ground beneath your feet, feeling your butt in the chair, and then taking a deep breath.
And then any fear that you're feeling, sort of like feeling where it is in your body, allowing yourself to, like, feel it, and then moving that fear out of your body and then being like, okay. What is the next what is what is the next right thing? What is the next insightful step that I wanna take from there? I think allowing ourselves to be embodied, to actually move out of our head into the fullness of, like, our hearts and our bodies actually is the first step to keeping us present and grounded.
Grounding Techniques for Presence
I I wanna say this, but I am actually barefoot and my feet's on the ground.
Oh, me too. That's great.
It it works, though. Right? Because, like, there there's so many ways where, we're sort of, like, bottling heads, and we're sort of, like, you know, floating away and sort of, like, lost in our thoughts, but we're not necessarily our thoughts. Thoughts are important, but we're our whole beings. And so when you, like, can feel the earth and ground come up to meet you and you can feel that presence, it reminds you to, like, be here now.
Yeah.
Thank you for that. Yeah. I really enjoyed that story. So can we talk about, in addition to making meaning in the workplace using such tactics like you've just mentioned And, of course, it kind of looks weird when you're in an office environment and you barefoot.
But, you know, what are other things that people can use, you know, in the workplace? Like, some some of the things that I would do is actually go out into nature, is to take a walk, and just be in nature.
How do you what are your thoughts around that?
Nature is a great reset. I think that there are many ways that we can nourish ourselves and we allow ourselves to be held.
You know, I don't know about you, but throughout my career, I could feel people's emotions.
Mhmm.
And it was so overwhelming at times. It and it was almost as if, like, it was I was not only digesting the information that people were sharing with me, but I could feel the state of their anxiety, or I could feel the pressure that they were under as if it were my own. And so there were so many data points that I was contending with that it was very difficult to be present. And so when I work with people, one of the very first things that I do is teach them how to ground.
Whether it be going out in nature or imagining your energy going down into the core of the earth, allowing yourself to blend with that and then connecting up into the center of the universe and blending with that. And when you feel that tether between earth and sky, it's almost as if your energy is held. Yeah. The other thing that I like to share with people is that just because you feel things doesn't make you a victim.
Right? I just think that a lot of people are just like, oh my goodness gracious. I'm feeling all these things.
I'm crippled by all of this data input. And what I would say to that is, this is your superpower.
This is your superpower. Let's embrace it. But, also, let's get some fundamental energetic hygiene tactics in place so that you know how to be with energy. Right?
Because, part of this is also creating, like, energetic space. What I teach people to do is actually create an energetic bubble around them so they have some level of protection. So anything that's coming towards them is actually reflected back in love. I also teach people to be able to scan their physical bodies, to be able to scan their energy fields, and to give back what's not theirs.
Right? Because a lot of people unconsciously are actually like sponges, and they take on other people's energy, and that can actually weigh on people both literally and figuratively. And so if you feel like there's, like, the weight of the world on your shoulders, it's likely you're taking on tension from other people. And so what I teach people to do is to gently sort of, like, release that, have these practices just as we would, like, normally sort of, like, brush our teeth, be able to have this energetic hygiene so that your energy system remains clear, and you can be in integrity with those that you're in relationship with.
Yeah. And I think with everything that's going on in the world stage right now from politics to geopolitical issues, you know, a lot of people take that on as though it is, like, their I mean and and I've I've had to actually work really hard at this because I'm I can sense people's energies also, but I've also learned to to really ground and and and and I've I've done my I've done my work around that. But then when I even just having conversations with people or I watched the news and oh my god. Oh my god. And I feel depressed. And, you know, I and they take on all of that negativity and all of that emotion.
Are these ways that you've just mentioned, are these things that people can do just in order to sort of decompress and release?
Yeah.
You know, I I like to say to people, you know, manage your inputs.
Just as we're feeding our physical bodies with nutritious foods, we're also feeding our energetic bodies. And so what are you surrounding yourself with that is inputting into your system? And some of these things can be within our control. Right?
You know, I'm a I'm a person who really loves geopolitical stuff. You know, I I grew up in international relations. That was my major. I'm very involved in international business community.
It's part of the service that I have with leaders is to stay on top of things. And I have a timer. When I read the news, I set it for thirty minutes, and I'm very intentional with how much I consume, when I consume, and, I put a boundary on it. Right?
Because I also recognize that I need to be in right relationship with this because that is a lot of information that is impacting my energy field. And a lot of it, frankly, is not necessarily very useful.
And it's not to say that that isn't, important. I'm not dismissing it. But I'm also saying it has a place in my life and I'm actually going to exercise my agency to determine where it is and when it is. Okay? So first thing in the morning, no.
I'm gonna connect with nature. I'm gonna put my feet on the ground. I'm gonna sit and meditate because the more that I connect with my higher self, the true essence of who I am versus, like, the ego and other people's fears, the more that I can orient towards the higher purpose. And that's what I'm here to do to help point the way.
Yeah. I think one of the things that I do is actually don't have a TV Yeah. In my home. I haven't for over a decade, just because I've and people are like, oh my god. How can you survive? And I'm like, I think I've actually been able to do so much more in my life, by not having a TV in my home and still being aware of what's going on, you know, in in the news, in society, in culture.
So that's those are really good tips I hope for for others.
The Role of Faith in Leadership
Can we talk about how faith so let's say you get to this place where you you practice the skill sets around developing your inner self, your inner spirit, your character, and now you are in the external environment.
How can spiritual practices assist, or actually not spiritual practices? How can faith shape the boardroom experience?
So many ways. So many ways.
First of all, as a leader, you have a outsized opportunity and energetic impact to shift the tenor of the room.
Your energetic presence essentially reverberates throughout that room and into the entire arena of the organization. And so one of the things that I love about working with with leaders is that, they refract the light out into the world in a very powerful way.
The more I I like to say that heal that hurt people hurt people. Right? We we tend to sort of, like, walk through the same patterns that that have been imprinted on us. But in the ways that we have been healed, we can also heal people.
Part of this is implicit, and part of it is explicit. Explicit by actually, you know, using our words in impactful ways, demonstrating character, making the hard decisions.
But also, by the energy that you are emitting, you are actually entraining other people's energetic system to align with yours.
So from a passive way, your energetic presence is actually smoothing the ripples so that other people can be able to become more peaceful, to be able to attune to that higher consciousness.
So the more dominant frequency is actually the one that sets the tone. And so that's what I wanna share with leaders is not only it is their practice, but also the intention that they're hoping to, like, share with their team. It does have an outsized impact.
With that, there are specific practices that you can bring within the boardroom. What's very interesting is that as you are expanding your consciousness, you also have greater awareness, not normally of, like, the intelligences within the head, but you're also able to receive inspiration, that's nonlocal.
And so other people from, other people will call it, like, downloads or, inspiration or, you know, the Greeks would call it, like, the muses.
Right? Where the human mind sort of, like, sets aside and then all of a sudden you have that shower moment and it's like, oh, wait a minute. I just received that pig. And so I just wanted to offer that the more that we can be able to, be in right relationship with our ego, to be able to tune to these higher energy frequencies, the more that we're able to receive those downloads, those pings, those ahas, those sort of like dancing with the noises moments for the next innovative idea. You know, a lot of what I do with leaders is personal healing. It is becoming conscious of their human experience in the world, But we're also being able to channel divine inspiration.
Channeling Inspiration and Strategy
So I actually serve as a channel for people to actually download strategy, vision, marketing, to come up with new product ideas, to be able to activate sole contracts for partnerships, to be able to, smooth, the energies within, like, Discord, within a team. You You know? All of this is something that you can do once you recognize that we're more than just our human bodies. We are actually energy having experience within a human body.
I think that's really great, and I've seen that in some instances within corporate America. But that's not usually the case, Tiffany. And I, you know, we especially now that this whole idea around narcissism, you know, and and that can also be another way where you come into these toxic sort of cultures, you know, because, again, that energetic aspect of a leader who is very narcissistic, and then it kind of flows down throughout the entire organization.
What kind of advice would you give people who maybe or might not be at the leadership level, but are sort of either, you know, lower than c suite or whatever the case is and having to work around someone like that.
Yeah.
We are always in situations, even if they're uncomfortable, to help us learn, grow, expand, and evolve.
And so one of the very first things that I would do is to move out of victim consciousness.
Suite. I don't have agency because I'm not the top tier. I would actually turn the mirror back to you and ask, okay. What do you have agency around?
In what ways do you want to grow from this experience?
By the way, what are you learning?
And in what ways do you want to use this experience to help you become a more conscious being?
And sometimes that means leaving, Belinda. That means leaving. And I know that's not a popular thing. Right? Because people do have some very real financial pressures and having to, like, raise a family. But sometimes, the sole contract or one of the things that you're supposed to learn is actually recognizing where your personal boundary is and recognizing where you might be out of integrity.
And if it feels as if your energetic, frequency is not in alignment with the direction of the organization and you feel like the best and highest decision that you can make is to leave, what I would do is actually think about what other options there are so that you can make a life that is more aligned with where you are.
If ultimately you do feel that you are there in service of shining a light, changing the tenor, I would actually start speaking about that and actually aligning with other people who understand this, you know, who do recognize that we are not, like, in victim mentality, that we do have a voice and that we do have the ability to shift the tenor. And by actually working together, being able to align with those common values, be able to beam that light consistently, you are able to to have shifts. So I don't wanna say that's impossible.
I've seen it happen. I've actually facilitated people to do it.
I would also say that some organizations are in a massive, like, stage of reorganization.
I mean, it's not, you know, I mean, most people can can see that right now. And I think that a lot of what we're seeing is the institutions that are built on old technology, so to speak, old ways of being, old belief systems, are actually not, able to withstand the new sort of, like, waves that are coming through. And so I you will be able to see these organizations, sort of, like, dismantling. And for some people, that can be a little scary, but I would also offer that this is the natural cycle of life. Right?
We move from spring to summer to fall to winter, and, ultimately, there is a cycle of evolution and reinvention that happens irrespective.
And I would offer that that is healthy as well Because even in the dead of winter, it is a regeneration time for new growth to come.
Stages of Consciousness and Personal Growth
Yeah. Exactly. You talk about victim consciousness.
I remember reading an article that you wrote that, kind of expands upon the four different types of consciousness as mentioned by Michael Beckwith. Can you go into what how that progresses, how you progress from victim consciousness?
What's the next step, and how do you get to that place? Because you asked the question, what did you learn from that experience? Right?
You know, how are you growing from that experience? Let's just say it was a situation where you're in a, you know, challenging work environment.
So how do you go from victim consciousness to the next step to be liberated in such a way that you can actually start living in your integrity?
Yeah. For those of you who are, unaware of Michael Beckwith, Dave Ploprath is a head of a church, Agape Church, I believe in California.
Mhmm. And he came with this framework with the different stages of consciousness, that we all move through.
And he talked about it as, life is happening to me.
Okay? So this is when your external circumstances are actually putting you in a certain place where you're thinking, oh, woe is me. If if the IRS is calling me up or my car broke down, like, this is actually happening to me. It's as if, like, you're the victim of your particular life.
That's stage one. Stage two is life is happening by me. Okay? So this is a very sort of, like, masculine way. This is the sort of, like, creation place where it's sort of like, oh, I'm going to, like, use my mind and with my strong intention, force this thing into reality.
For someone that went to business school, this is a very common way. I have found myself in this many a time where it's sort of like, I'm good if there's a will and, by gosh, darn it. I have will. I'm gonna make a way.
Okay? So it's sort of like it's and I would also offer that sort of, like, vision boards and also sort of, like, muscling your way through it is also, like, life is going to happen by me because I said it's gonna happen. Okay? And that's very powerful because you're moving from a place of helplessness to a place of, like, creation.
But that's in Michael Beschloss framework, that's stage two.
Yeah. First stage three is life is happening for me.
So this is a shift from saying, like, gosh. By darn it. I'm going to make a way to being like, listen.
I trust irrespective of what happens that anything that comes is actually working towards my highest good and my highest evolution.
So, therefore, I'm actually moving into place of surrender, trust, and flow.
Okay? Moving from a place of gonna force my way, very masculine, to a place of, like, feminine, of, like, I'm allowing myself to receive and be that channel for love to, like, move through me.
Okay? So that's stage one, two, three.
Final stage is what he refers to as stage four. Life is happening as me, meaning that there is no separation between you and life, where it's almost as if the contours of your body almost, like, blend away, and you experience life as this unified force.
And you and I, in the earlier part of the conversation, referenced, you know, the, my experience with god consciousness actually moving through me. I would offer that, you know, it's those sort of experiences where we melt away. You know, I I have those experiences when my little nephew, you know, grabs my pinky, and it's sort of like there's no difference between him and me. Or when I'm viewing a beautiful sunset and it's almost like I'm not only becoming the sun, but I'm melting into the framework. It's sort of like this unity consciousness where I'm not myself. I'm not the sun, but I'm actually everything that is in that experience.
So you talk about force to surrender and flow.
So we talk about surrender. That is such a difficult thing Yeah.
The Power of Surrender in Leadership
To do for a lot of I hear you.
So so so how does one surrender, especially as an individual and as a business leader? How does one surrender? Because in order to surrender, then that's when you can actually get into flow with spirit, with when everything's, I guess, you might have the right word for it, but synchronicity Yeah. Occurs. So can you can you take from force to surrender to flow?
Yeah. Yeah.
I think those, particularly in a Western context, really need to reexamine our relationship with the word and the concept of surrender because, oh my goodness gracious, we think of surrender as the white flag, as giving up, as losing.
And particularly in the Western context, we think that losing means you're a loser and means that you're no good and you're not worthy. Okay? So I just wanted to be able to offer that distinction because that's not surrender.
Surrender isn't losing. If anything, surrender is almost like having it's it's actually a choice.
It's an it's not an act of passivity. It's actually an act of choice to allow a greater energy and flow to move through you.
And what I also like to say is it it doesn't mean that you're you're not setting an intention or you're not having goals.
Because I've got my goals. I I operate on a quarterly basis, like, I think many people who are listening to the podcast as well. But I also recognize that there may be something that is greater and above than what I could ever imagine.
Those particular financial goals that I've set myself or the physical goals that I've set for myself, it may actually have a cap on what I think is possible.
And, actually, by releasing control and giving way to that greater flow, I come into greater command.
Okay? So it's actually an active choice, be recognizing that the relationship that I've been built, that trust that I've cultivated within this greater thing, that I can allow myself to relax into that because that's greater than what my human condition can offer.
And, it takes a lot of trust, I think a lot of deliverableness as well as intention.
But, ultimately, it's also sort of, like, falling back into, a bed of, like, beautiful, fluffy pillows.
It's knowing, right, that that is there to support you and that you can relax.
And, actually, through that relaxation, there's something more that that can come out.
And for me, it's a place of beauty as well because, much in the same way, you know, I live near a beach. If I if I go to, like, scoop some sand from the beach and I'm holding tightly through that control, as you know, like, that sand sort of, like, moves out through my fingers. But it's actually by opening my hand that that sand is actually staying there, and I can create, like, a space for more to come.
The Intersection of Command and Morality
I like this idea of command where you sort of go from a place of forcing to surrender and to flow.
And now you are in command.
Yeah.
Of yourself as you go out into the world.
How does that feed into morality?
I'm curious.
Yeah. Can you give me an example?
So morality as a business leader, morality, Because I think it's one thing to say you're in command and you're one I I like to say command for me is oneness because that's how I feel. Sure.
But maybe because I'm maybe a little bit more advanced in my journey and still I'm still learning.
But how does that work with ego? I think maybe that's the question when it comes to leadership.
Command and ego, is there a difference?
They could be viewed as the same.
Yeah. I here here's a couple perspectives, and you let me know how this resonates or not.
Is that let's reference the four stages of consciousness. It is really easy to be like, oh, yeah. I'm in stage four. I'm better than everyone else.
You know, all those simpletons who are operating in a victim mentality, you know, they're they're lesser than. And I would offer that, these stages of consciousness, we fluctuate through them multiple times a day. Right. Right? Like, it is not just like a one and done and, like, you've reached the holy grail and you've reached God consciousness, like, chairs.
It's one of these things where it's sort of like we can move through these stages, like, multiple times through, like, five minutes. And I think it it gives you it gives me, speaking in first person, greater compassion and empathy of what it means to be human.
Yeah.
And recognizing that a different perspective is possible, and also recognizing when I'm in the depths of my despair, that I also recognize that in other people.
And what it's done is it's made me more compassionate with others.
And it's not to say that, I think that I'm better than other people. It's almost like I can recognize myself Correct. In that experience. And and I think that's part of unity consciousness, quite frankly, is being able to not only recognize the infinite power within another, but it's also able to recognize where we actually might be suffering.
Collective Experiences and Compassion
Right? And I think that for many, COVID was that experience.
Right? It's almost like we went through this shared collective experience, and we understood how painful it was. And because we could recognize that within one another, we're actually more compassionate towards each other. It doesn't mean sort of, like, wallowing and and sort of, like, commiserating. I would actually say that's that's actually you know? But it's actually being part of, like, I see you in me and me in you. Right?
Yeah. I like that. I like that. That that does make sense. And I think it almost sets not sets I guess that's the playing field because we all fluctuate through that.
You know, even sometimes I find myself going through those four levels of consciousness, and it's just, okay, where where am I and and and how can I get back? And so I think that's where the practices come into play, in order to kind of realign oneself back to sort of your faith, your integrity.
Can we talk about cash flow?
Could I could I could I offer just a a an a yes and to that? Yes, please.
So I I think that there's a lot of value towards, you know, that self administration, so to speak, sort of like, okay. I'm I'm at this stage. I can make a choice to be at a different stage. Very important. Right?
I would also offer the the value of community, the value of having these types of conversations, the value of finding other people within the office, the value of yourself, right, as someone who does believe in consciousness that can talk about spirituality is that you can be supported by others.
Okay? Because I have been in so many dire circumstances where I have suffered because I thought I was alone.
Right? And the way that I've gotten myself out is by making a choice, but also saying that I needed help.
And the way that I did that was inviting people into my experience so that I could be healed.
And so when people are reticent being like, oh, I don't know if I should share this. I don't know if I'm going to be accepted.
I think that, per the part of the joy and also the healing is also to allow yourself to be lifted up. Because there are some circumstances where almost, like, we're too weak to almost, like, pull ourselves out of it, but other people in community can help us lift from one stage to the other. So I think that's just really important to share.
Yeah.
Unity in Diversity: Navigating Cultural Differences
It is. And and how I think for me, it's just when I I like that. And how do how can leaders, or should we say or should I ask, how can we in the business environment, be respectful toward others who are not of the same faith or the same ideology, how can we navigate that cultural difference?
Yeah. So what I would offer is that unity consciousness doesn't mean uniformity.
Right? So it doesn't mean that everyone needs to subscribe to the thing same thing or show up in the same way. In in my experience, spirit is kinda like a a diamond with different facets, and we are all, like, emanating a certain refraction of that light. And it is important for other people to be able to refract a different frequency, a different color so that we can experience spirit in many different ways. So I think a first is just expanding your awareness that spirit has just as we ourselves are multitudes, spirit also is multitudes.
And in the different ways that are there are a thousand different, irises in terms of, you know, the ways that they show up and being able to appreciate and see what is the thing that it is trying to how is spirit trying to almost, like, show itself through this distinctive pattern? Right? What is the thing that is trying to almost, like, be shared with me? What can I learn? What's what's beautiful here? What do I wanna, like, learn and take with this experience and be able to integrate that in terms of your understanding to be able to deepen and enrich your understanding of who spirit is and what the universe is?
Overcoming Fears in Leadership
So knowing what you've just said, what are some common fears holding back entrepreneurs in order to come to this place of realization?
What is what is holding them back from Yeah.
Just from being able to to get to that place where they can embrace, you know, other people of different faiths and and not from a condescending place? But, like, what are some of the common fears that you've seen that hold leaders back in of overcoming the obstacle to actually embody their divinity?
I think we all, worry about belonging.
I think we worry about not taking be taken seriously. I mean, that's something that, frankly, I still contend with. Right?
And there's almost like, if I say that I believe in something that is unseen, does that negate my credibility as a leader?
I think that's a huge one.
Yeah.
Right? You're nodding. Yeah.
And the fact of the matter is is you you said that, you know, there's there's not that many people in the corporate world that that do embrace these things. I I would offer that there are.
People are a lot more receptive to this. They're just not talking about it.
I know that there are because not only are they are my clients, they're I have got a bunch of colleagues who are serving at very high levels, and I can also give you case studies of successful entrepreneurial leaders that are embedding, inviting, and also bringing these, principles into their professional careers, whether they be the Arianna Huffington's, the Marc Benioff's, the Phil Jacksons of the world, the Sarah Blake Blakely's.
Right? It's just we are not necessarily aware of. They're not written about. And part of why I'm sharing these case studies and I'm choosing to to speak more publicly is that people need embodied examples of integrated leaders, that they can be both head, heart, spirit, soul, and that they can show up through their whole selves. And they have been very successful, not only in their, their spiritual journey successful, but, like, they've been they've been open to the spiritual evolution that they've actually infused their organization with us. I would also offer that ten to fifteen years ago, Belinda, we all thought meditation is crazy.
Right? In in corporate America in particular, like, are you kidding me? But now we're integrating sound healing. Right now people are doing yoga at work. They actually have specific rooms dedicated towards meditation and mindfulness.
I, I just spoke to a a new partner at a top four accounting firm. He said that as part of his practices, everyone puts aside their phone in a basket, and they actually spend the first ten minutes in meditation before they go out into their their cohort practices as partners on this big four accounting firm. Are you kidding me? So what was viewed as outlandish in the past is now integrated now.
And when I'm talking about energy, consciousness, spirituality, it may be a little left of center. I understand a lot of people are uncomfortable with it. But I'd also say just because we're not we're we don't, like, have an active conversation doesn't mean it's happening. And I'd also say that in the next ten to fifteen years, this is going to be the meditation of corporate.
The Evolution of Corporate Mindfulness
This is going to be something that people are actively going to be talking about, going to be integrating, going to be actively practicing. So if you want to be on that, cutting edge, I would offer start now. Start now. Yeah.
And it and it's not even about cutting edge.
It you know, I've been meditating for a very long time, and back when, you know, you you it wasn't something you even talked about. Right? Yeah.
And and so so I think it's it's not even about, like, okay. I'm doing this because I wanna be cutting edge. I think it's more like you you probably need to do this just to survive.
Right. Right. Right.
Right? Yeah. Because because the way of the world with all of the chaos and challenges and everything that's happening and going to happen, there there has to be a way to start really understanding how to live in alignment. So then that way, you're not, like, shaft in the wind.
Right. You're not going back and forth, because of all of the emotions and everything that's coming at you and being able to ground yourself. I did have one question before we kind of start to wrap up. I wanna talk about, psychedelics and meditation apps.
What are your thoughts on psychedelics and especially things like Ayahuasca and also meditation apps. And are they and I think two meditation apps, I'm just also trying to understand your your viewpoint.
Or what are your thoughts on it? And if that's maybe it's a good way to start, but is that really something that should be maintained?
Yeah.
So, a lot of my clients take psychedelics.
That's how they come to me.
I I personally don't take psychedelics, and I'll tell you why.
I I believe that psychedelics, at least from what I've heard, is that it does expand your awareness, but it's temporary.
Right? It can be able to have this sort of, like, opening.
But where I think it might be misplaced is that people think they need a thing in order to create an experience.
And in the same way that traditional religion and structures would say you need a priest or you need a ritual or you need a x y z in order to have that experience with divine, it's sort of like going along a really windy path when the truth of the matter is is that we are the embodiment of source.
Right? And so I would offer while these medicines can be helpful in terms expanding that awareness, I would caution that you don't need a thing to be able to have that experiential knowing and that relationship and that sensation of your essence through a third party, whether it be, a shaman or a medicine.
I'd also offer that this is a skill.
Being able to shift your consciousness, to shift your awareness is something that can be created over time. Yes. It does take patience, and I think that many of us have been trained to sort of, like, push the button and get the high, but it's long lasting.
And I'm able to do it on demand, and I'm able to do it in the most dire circumstances.
And I would offer that, I think that's what the world needs is to have that balanced, that stableness, that connection of deep knowing when the stuff hits the fan. Because when that happens, you're not gonna be reaching for an eyes of Alaska. You've gotta find it within you. And so it is that cultivation within yourself that I think is really important and that no one can ever take away.
Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. I agree.
Meditation apps, would you say they kind of fall into the external bucket as well? Because I know people who, when they do meditate, they can't meditate on their own. They meditate all the time with meditation apps, and it's, you know, it's so so then what happens when the meditation apps are gone?
I guess that's pretty similar.
I think it's a great place to start, and I'm not gonna shame anyone who does use them. What I would offer is that, there are different ways to meditate.
And as you've said, going out into nature.
Right? For me, it's dance.
Allowing yourself to be completely present and to have that experience in knowing of that oneness is what we're striving for. And so if that allows you to move from your mind into your body and to have that experience with divine, so be it. Some people are restless. They're not gonna be sitting for ten to fifteen minutes at a time.
I understand that. What I would offer is that there's a walking meditation. There's a nature meditation. There's a dance meditation.
Other ways to explore.
Yeah. They can go running. They can paint.
Totally.
They can go for walks. It's, you know so it doesn't really always have to be like that sitting meditation.
Redefining Strength and Softness in Leadership
Exactly.
Anything else you want to touch on before we get into the closing questions?
Yeah. One of the things that, one of my clients when he first started seeing me, his, major concern was, will this make me soft?
Will I lose my edge?
Will I be less ambitious?
And, you know, I've worked with him for several years now, and it's really interesting to witness his transformation.
What I would say is in the same way that we've, characterized certain traits with surrender, we have viewed softness as something that's bad or wrong or that you need to show up in a certain way in the world in order to succeed.
And what I would say is that the tenor of the world is shifting, and that softness doesn't necessarily mean that you are pushover.
Right? And so when we embrace all of who we are, most our toughness as well as our softness, when we are allowing ourselves to focus our energy, because I think that's what you were referring to is being intentional with our energetic field, knowing where and when to put that intention out into the world. We can make things happen just like that. And I think that's just really powerful to be able to underline because people are not only fearful of, almost like showing up in a different way, but also whether or not they'll be impactful in the world. And I would offer that through that softening, through that receptivity, we actually yield to that greater energy that wants to move through us and that we can manifest into the world. And that's that's building on the conversation that we've had before.
Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. Yeah. Yeah. Alright. So, let's go into some closing questions I have. Sure.
We are in 2024, almost halfway through this decade.
Optimism for the Future of Leadership
What excites you the most about the future?
So much. Oh my goodness. I am so optimistic about the future.
Largely because people are coming into greater consciousness, greater awareness.
They are not only cerebrally knowing that we're interconnected, but they're having visceral experiences of that. And once you have that, there's no going back.
I also have, a lot of faith and trust in the younger generations. I think that they come in with new systems, kind of like a almost like a fresh sort of, like, mainframe that bringing to the world. And I do believe that they're able to connect into the frequencies in a much different and more refined way. So, the future of leadership is bright, and I'm very excited for that.
Yeah. I'm seeing that as well just with some of the entrepreneurs and founders that I'm working with. Some of the businesses they're building, the technologies, the innovation, and it's very thoughtful. You know, it's not like the old guard of, industrialists, you know, that we were kind of used to, and now it's like we are actually creating a new narrative, in the industrial world. So it's it's really, fascinating and exciting. So I'm definitely optimistic about the future as well. Absolutely.
So I got this from Lewis Howes.
I got this question every time he asks it, so I'm gonna ask it to you.
Imagine it's your last day on Earth many years from now, and you've accomplished everything you've ever dreamed of. But for whatever reason, you have to take all of your content, everything you have built in this lifetime with you. And no one no one can access has access to any of your information anymore.
But you get to leave behind three truths, so three things, three lessons that you want to leave with the world.
What are your three truths?
Yeah.
I love this.
Three Transformative Truths
The first is, love is a transformative force.
It can radically shift the tenor of things, people.
And I believe in I believe in trust and the power of love. I think in many ways, we've almost like downplayed love or sort of like put it in a small little chocolate box, kinda cheapened it, which makes us sort of, like, think that love is a froufrou thing, but love is a powerful force, and I believe in it.
I believe also, the second thing is that we're all interconnected. We're all woven of the same fabric. We're all made of the same thing. I know that, not only with my work with energy, but then also, when I see a person or an animal, you know, moving through nature, we're all part of the same divine stuff. And so recognizing that, knowing that deeply at a visceral level.
And I'd say the third is to trust the unknown.
Mhmm.
Trust the unknown. Trust that life is actually for us. And when we yield to that greater power, it can create far greater and better than we can ever imagine.
Wow. That's pretty incredible. So love is transformative, talks about oneness and trusting, having faith.
Yeah.
What's your definition of a next gen industrialist?
Oh, good one. You know, when I think of the word industrialist, I think of creator.
Mhmm.
And so my dream, my wants, and also my definition for for a next gen industrialist is, someone who creates as source, creating with love, co-creating their world through that love, being able to exercise their agency, but then also working in cooperation with the greater power that is.
Yeah.
I like that. I like that. Oh my gosh. That's awesome. Thank you so much. Thank you. Tiffany, where can people find you?
Oh, thank you.
Connecting with Tiffany Chan
Best place to find me is through my website, tiffany m chan dot com.
There's a little button there so that we can have a quick meeting and see if we're a good fit to be able to support one another.
Yeah. So I have that scrolling across, and it's t I f f a n y m c h a n dot com.
Tiffany, this was amazing. I appreciate you. I appreciate your conversation.
Closing of the Podcast Episode
So I'm gonna turn to the audience now. Well, folks, I hope today's conversation with Tiffany has inspired you to reflect on how to integrate your values, your purpose, and to find the right spiritual practices that enable you to step fully into your leadership.
Remember, true leadership isn't just about strategy and execution.
It's about leading with heart, mind, body, and spirit aligned.
If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to leave a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen.
Your feedback really does help us reach more listeners who, like you, are committed to revitalizing American industrial dynamism.
Don't forget to save or download this episode so you can revisit Tiffany's insights whenever you need a dose of inspiration.
And, of course, share it with your friends, your colleagues, and anyone else who might benefit from this conversation.
Until then, keep leading with purpose and spirit. Thank you very much.
Thank you.
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